Talk: Wilhelm II, German Emperor

Frederick III

You have him succeeding Wilhelm I directly? Oh no no no. Frederick III separated them, albeit for a rather short amount of time. And Emperor of Germany? Dear God, don't let the Bavarians hear you. German Emperor. The other German kings would never have agreed to consolidation otherwise.Turtle Fan 07:59, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

German history class is in the deep dark past, my friend. Does anyone remember Frederick III? TR 08:04, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Thread-necromancy: I can't help but point out that Frederick III's survival is a great what-if in AH discussion circles. He was almost pretty much everything his son was not - pro-Britain, liberal, and not prone to crazy fits. Jelay14 19:34, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

So I'm the only guy in the world who doesn't remember Frederick III.

Actually, no HT doesn't remember him either. Hence HT's decision to name the new Kaiser Friedrich (Frederick) I. TR 22:39, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm--interesting. Perhaps HT intended Frederick III to have died before assuming the throne, and the succession passing to Wilhelm II directly?

Of course, even if Frederick III were thus killed, Frederick I and Frederick II remain unaccounted for. Turtle Fan 22:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

EDIT:Sorry, read TF's comment wrong. TR 23:14, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Saved yourself a "No shit!" there. Turtle Fan 02:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Frederick II was the great one. Jelay14 09:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Correct. Must be nice to go down as the Great.

You know, for a "Great" monarch, Frederick II's physical appearance, at least according to his portraits, was awfully . . . uninspiring. Turtle Fan 16:09, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Aside from Peter the Great, and perhaps Charlemagne, I can't think of too many "Greats" who were physically inspiring. TR 17:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Sejong the Great was something of a looker. At least based on his portrait on the 10,000 won bill, with which I became intimately familiar. Leo the Great was quite bold-looking as clergymen go.

And even the blah-looking ones don't look like they're getting ready to die of pneumonia the way Frederick the Great does. The first time I saw his picture I thought "Why is William Henry Harrison wearing that get-up?" Then I asked whether the picture had been made by someone seeking to discredit him. Nope. Turtle Fan 19:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

What about Adolf the Great, conqueror of the Franks and the Rus? Jelay14 19:42, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

How sick is this? Turtle Fan 19:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Pretty goddam. I like the cherry-picking of positive remarks made in his early days of power. Most of those compliments had been taken back by '38 and '39. TR 20:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

"ADOLF, AS PROMISED,

LESS THAN FOUR YEARS LATER

TOTAL QUALIFIED VOTES 45,453,691

TOTAL VOTES CAST 45,001,489 (99%)

VOTES 'NO' OR INVALID 540,211

VOTES FOR HITLER'S NSDAP 44,461,278 (98.8%)

True to his word, on March, 29th, 1936, the German nation was given the opportunity to accept or reject the National Socialist state. It was a free election without fear or intimidation with ample provision made for monitoring by neutral observers."

This is PROOF that elections in Nazi Germany were free, and yet the people chose Adolf Hitler, Fuehrer of the German Reich, as their leader. You cannot deny 98.8% of a people's vote. Surely the love of a great man. Jelay14 20:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

No free electorate will ever give 99% of its vote to anyone. You couldn't get that kind of margin on a referendum to describe the sky as blue.

I also noticed that while the cherry-picked comments talked about how successful and influential Hitler was, even those fucktards couldn't come up with anyone saying that he was a positive force in world affairs.

I also liked that "Adolf's friend Rudolf" was "jailed for trying to end World War II." And not for being mad as a hatter.

And I just loved the publicity shot from Churchill's cameo appearance in The Untouchables. Turtle Fan 20:13, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

There's another image, possibly even from the same event, where Churchill's firing the Tommy gun. True gangsta. Jelay14 20:49, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Wilhelm III

GusF, Wilhelm III redirects specifically to Crown Prince Wilhelm in Southern Victory. Just FYI. TR 15:51, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

In "Uncle Alf"

"...but, not being a monarchist, Hitler attached no special importance to Wilhelm being of royal birth." I don't recall Hitler ruminating on monarchism or Wilhelm's royal birth in that story. ML4E, you're reviewing the OA stories. Have you found anything like that? TR (talk) 23:54, November 5, 2015 (UTC)

I had no recollection of that but intended to skim the story to verify. I haven't had a chance yet. ML4E (talk) 19:53, November 6, 2015 (UTC)

I went through the story this morning and picked out all references to The Kaiser (I didn't notice him referred to by name). Hitler didn't seem to have an opinion one way or the other about the man but was very respectful of the position as leader of Germany. The effect I think Turtledove was going for was Kaiser = Führer in Hitler's outlook. The cult of personality from OTL was directed at Wilhelm by Hitler and while he was ambitious, there wasn't even a hint that he was anything but loyal and devoted to the Leader. The last statement in the sub-section is inaccurate in that Hitler attached importance to the position as Leader of the Volk but indifferent as to how the occupant was selected. So not a monarchist but an adherent to the idea of supreme leader. I will fiddle with the sub-section to get a more accurate notion across. ML4E (talk) 17:33, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

That is more or less what I recall. The anonymous user's line seems more "projecting". TR (talk) 17:40, November 7, 2015 (UTC)

Deletions and hist refs

The Worldwar and The War That Came Early sections can go to hist refs. The After the Downfall bit might not even merit that much. In the first few pages Hasso Pemsel reads a sign saying that Herr Professor Maximilian Eugen von Heydekampf disappeared at an imperial reception at the Old Museum, and that's it.

Southern Victory, "Uncle Alf", and Curious Notions can stay, as Kaiser Bill gets his life drastically altered in those.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 06:33, November 11, 2016 (UTC)

He's the incumbent emperor in most of 191 and in UA. That's rather important to note.

It's not just that his life changes in CN, it's that you can't fully understand how CN works without at least briefly understanding Kaiser Bill. TR (talk) 22:02, November 14, 2016 (UTC)

Double Cating

This and Wilhelm I have both the "Emperors" and "German Emperors" cats. Is that deliberate or an oversight? Also, Wilhelm II is double cated with "Kings" and "Kings of Prussia" cat. Deliberate? I.e. king of someplace other than Prussia as well or oversight? ML4E (talk) 18:36, April 3, 2017 (UTC)

Oversight. They don't need double catting. TR (talk) 18:42, April 3, 2017 (UTC)

The New Yorker: Donald Trump = Kaiser Bill

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/what-happens-when-a-bad-tempered-distractible-doofus-runs-an-empire interesting.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 07:15, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

I'd put it closer to harrowing. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:11, June 7, 2018 (UTC)

Unnamed hist figs

Wilhelm shouldn't be in Unnamed Historical Figures. The unnamed references are simply to the incumbent monarch at the POD of each story. There is no doubt about his identity, and HT is not being coy.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 08:47, January 7, 2019 (UTC)

TWTCE

Why is the page locked? It occurs to me that a section for TWTCE might be doable, because W2's role there is similar to Saddam and Khomeini in A&O.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:07, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Its in the Hist Ref. Now you made me curious to check whether we need to delete Saddam and entries. ML4E (talk) 16:34, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Khomeini for A&O is pure Hist Ref slipped in unchallenged by MBS while I was in isolation. I am challenging it now. Saddam I need to think about. ML4E (talk) 16:53, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Saddam justifying an article was TR's idea. He plays a minor background role in a Bill Williamson story, allowing an article, so TR decided that the hist ref would be moved to an article for convenience. I noticed that Khomeini has a similar recurring reference, so I dumped it in Khomeini's article having no better place to put it. The references to Wilhelm II, who serves as a central metaphor in much of TWTCE, are similar to those A&O references.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 20:24, 30 October 2020 (UTC)