Harry shared the image on Twitter: https://twitter.com/HNTurtledove/status/1238569777221627905.

I do wonder if this might be a work where we wind up breaking the "HT or family only" rule. It sounds like Harry contributed to the early world building, and that the other two works will build on Harry's piece more directly (as opposed to "The Lieutenant" or "The Mrem Go West", where he contributed a brand-new work, but another author/editor did the world building). TR (talk) 21:13, March 13, 2020 (UTC)

It is more clear cut than the two War World Series novels where the four co-authors brought in characters they had created for the various short stories and mingled them together. I've always wondered how to document the two novels and so held off. Admittedly, inertia played a role too. ML4E (talk) 21:39, March 13, 2020 (UTC)

Publisher's Weekly review[]

https://www.publishersweekly.com/978-1-64710-005-6 for the curious. The link won't last long.  The review gives us an idea of what each author's story is about. It doesn't sound like the works are so intermingled that we'll need to catalogue the whole book, but there may be advantages to doing so? We shall see. TR (talk) 16:40, September 3, 2020 (UTC)

I have my copy[]

E-book downloaded last night.  I'm very close to finishing another book, so I'm going to do that before I start reading this.  I did use the search feature of the book to snoop a little.  Based on what I saw in HT's work, we will definitely have articles on a rogues gallery of fascists and fascist-enablers who are alive now and probably will be alive in the 2030s. TR (talk) 15:25, September 22, 2020 (UTC)

Started a bit last night, got to page 27 or something. My trial schedule for the next couple of weeks is going to be brutal, so I won't be doing much here generally, but I may be able to answer spoiler questions next week.
A few interesting living people for our little project here. I won't say who yet, but I will say that out of 4 real world living people introduced thus far, only one is NOT pure evil. That person is also NOT from the US, and holds a political office that does not exist in OTL. At least not yet. TR (talk) 15:30, September 23, 2020 (UTC)

Finished the whole book[]

Will entertain any spoiler questions. TR (talk) 15:29, September 25, 2020 (UTC)


The name Pacifica has been used for quite a number of entities in OTL, whether geographical, commercial, artistic, or otherwise. Including a small city near San Francisco. Therefore, linking "Pacifica (The Breaking of Nations)" rather than simply Pacifica is on the safe side.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:33, September 27, 2020 (UTC)

I'm willing to rename it if and only if you agree not to make unnecessary edits to everything that links here. Renaming creates a redirect to eliminate the need for that. Maybe some day we'll have another Pacifica, and it will be necessary to turn the redirect into a disambig; but we can cross that bridge when we come to it. Turtle Fan (talk) 07:23, September 27, 2020 (UTC)
The link has not been created yet. It is still in the bud.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:17, September 27, 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I see that now. The larger point still holds. Turtle Fan (talk) 20:34, September 27, 2020 (UTC)


I'm not going to work on this until after the election. I'm busy, the stories exacerbated election stress, and we should decide how to address the other stories, if we address them at all. TR (talk) 19:03, October 15, 2020 (UTC)

Very wise. Election stress is overwhelming enough as it is. Almost makes me wish I didn't care; but then I remember that that's the reason we're stuck in this sinkhole as it is. Turtle Fan (talk) 00:59, October 16, 2020 (UTC)

Historical allusions[]

There are alot of historical and literary/performing arts allusions, possibly enough to justify something in the nature of Eruption: Annotated.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:17, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Alternate history?[]

Can this and "The Terrific Leader" now be reclassified as AH? I realize they were written as future of OTL, but these two stories are a unique case of HT writing a story with a distinct expiration date for its history's alignment to OTL, and a specific goal in his mind of using the stories to spread awareness that would specifically prevent OTL from matching up with what's in the story. He put TTL and TBoN out there to push the message "You can stop this story from coming true!" It's not like "The Emperor's Return" which was just a humorous take on "What if crazy fantasy shit started happening in 13 years?"Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 00:02, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

We've discussed this here and at other fora. The simple answer is "no". They were both dire predictions of the future, not rewrites of the past. TR (talk) 00:07, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Nevertheless, I think their pub dates should be regarded as the PODs, for the purpose of Governor succession boxes, etc.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 00:44, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes, you have shared your opinion. TR (talk) 01:12, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
By that logic Back to the Future and I Robot are now AH. Star Trek will join them fairly soon (you might say it already has but I'm inclined to recognize, admittedly somewhat arbitrarily, April 5, 2063 as the day its fictional history begins in earnest) and, if it hasn't been lost in the interim, Dune will be an AH in 10,191.
Of course I understand that this book tries to paint a future that is much more specific and grounded, but it was not written as AH. It was a warning to depart from our society's dark path before it was too late. And I couldn't be happier that we did. But it has no AH spirit. Its cousins are works like 1984 and It Could Happen Here, and I can't imagine anyone calling those AH. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:31, 26 January 2021 (UTC)