Talk: The Banner of Kaviyan

Guess who was inspired by Talk:Drang von Osten to see if the TPL had the two Arabesques books? I read "Banner" Saturday but didn't have time to work on it until today.

The Where

The story starts in Tabaristan which is on the south shore of the Caspian sea and follows Shahin to Baghdad. Should I create "Works Set in Iran" and "in Iraq" cats or "Works Set in the Persian Empire"? I am inclined towards the latter although by the time of the story the Empire is defunct. Perhaps "in Arab Caliphate" to reflect this and that it is an Arabian Nights story? ML4E (talk) 21:58, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

I think we have the "in Iraq cat" thanks to the first to Colonization books (if we don't we should). Do we have other stories set in Arab Caliphate? TR (talk) 00:11, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

We don't have the "in Iraq cat". That's why I asked. I'll have to think about it if we have stories in the Arab Caliphate but the story in Arabesques II might be. ML4E (talk) 00:18, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Huh. Well, that's three Iraq works, anyway. TR (talk) 00:30, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

"Horse of Bronze" may or may not have had a very small slice of the story set in the Caliphate. The geography wasn't all that specific, even if you recognized all the mythological allusions. It wouldn't have been Iraq, though. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:25, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I seem to recall the homeland of the Centaurs would be in either the southern Balkans or Palestine but millennia before the time of the Caliphate. Should that be a consideration, i.e. which civilization controls the setting at the time of the story? If there isn't one, then we would use modern political divisions. ML4E (talk) 18:06, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

"Counting Potsherds" also takes place in a version of the Persian Empire. Ah, the Middle East and its ever-shifting geography.

Agreed. We have it listed as set in Greece but adding Persian Empire would be useful and informative. I think one of the Super-Basil stories has him doing a clandestine mission within Persian territory with him disguised as a merchant. ML4E (talk) 18:06, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

And I know we have had instances of inconsistency we should probably address down the line: we don't have a "Works Set in the United Kingdom" category, just one dedicated to the constitutient countries. On the other hand, we do have a "Works Set in the Soviet Union" category, but I don't think we have it divided up by its constituent countries. Then we have "Works Set in the Roman Empire" double-catted with individual provinces (that are now countries). The Byzantine Empire has a similar category set-up.

So maybe we should do Works set in Iran, in Iraq, in the Perisan Empire, and in the Arab Caliphate (even if the latter two will have limited foreseeable growth potential) with the realization that we'll probably be double-catting on occasion. TR (talk) 15:10, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I think the double-catting would be useful (see above on "Counting Potsherds"). Some of the setting cats we have now have only entry and little chance of growth so that shouldn't be a problem. ML4E (talk) 18:06, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

The When

I guess since the Arab conquest of Persia is generally considered to have been completed in 644, and this story is set roughly a half-century later, then the story must be set closer to 700 CE, not 800 CE. Is that correct? TR (talk) 15:10, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Just thinking about it, Pakor the Elder is Shahin (The Banner of Kaviyan)'s great grandfather and Pakor the Dihqan's grandfather. (The Dihqan is Shahin's father.) This makes the story three generations later. The Elder would have been Shahin's age when he took part in the victories against the East Roman (i.e. Byzantine) Empire which was around 620. So yes, that places the story at the 700CE mark, probably at most a decade later. Interestingly, the "8th Century" cat is correct. ML4E (talk) 18:06, September 11, 2012 (UTC)