Talk: COVID-19

Start

Now we have a legitimate forum for this topic.

Did we really need one? It's tiresome. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:08, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

A recent NY Times heading says "COVID-19 hospitalizations hit record level. New U.S. coronavirus cases continued to rise on Tuesday, surpassing 139,000 for the first time as COVID-19 hospitalizations in the country rose to a record high 61,964. The number of people hospitalized rose above the previous high of 59,940, set on April 15, after the total more than doubled since September. Hospitalizations quickly fell after peaking in April, but public health experts do not expect the numbers to fall this time, as winter approaches and new cases continue to rise. The U.S. has confirmed more than 100,000 cases every day for a week, pushing the seven-day average to more than 123,000. More than 1,440 coronavirus deaths were reported in the U.S. on Tuesday, lifting the nation's death toll to nearly 240,000."

Should we be alarmed?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 10:17, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

To the extent that easily manipulated statistics are going to be used to justify even more suffering, yes. Even though they can't claim their doom and gloom forecasts justify such abuses of power without also admitting that they failed utterly when last they did the exact same thing.

Do these people think we voted out one tyrant because we're eager to bow to another? They keep blaming things on 2020 rather than accepting blame themselves, natly evading responsibility. Well 2020 is almost over, let's put this whole sorry business behind us! Turtle Fan (talk) 15:08, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

This Forbes article says "1 In Every 1,000 North Dakota Residents Has Been Killed By Covid." Is it time to be very afraid?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Don't you live in a state whose governor recently enjoyed a boisterous night out with a dozen lobbyists in a private room at a five star restaurant? I make it a point not to be afraid of things that don't frighten the people who are trying to make me afraid of them. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:22, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

My resolve is much weaker.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 03:10, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

How about this British story?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 11:21, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

You're probably right in this one example from the State of Jefferson: Suicides outnumbered Covid-19 deaths in Placer County well into September.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 09:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't know, what's the base line for suicides there? If it hasn't changed or increased only slightly, then the lock-down is unlikely to be the cause. ML4E (talk) 15:56, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

I don't know about that county, but nationally calls to the suicide hotline have octupled compared with last year. When you knowingly and intentionally create economic and mental health catastrophes without bothering to come up with sustainable countermeasures, I don't know why you'd expect otherwise. Turtle Fan (talk) 21:48, 12 December 2020 (UTC)

Chicago couple dies

What to make of this story?

They did everything right. But after one at-home haircut, a husband and wife died of Covid-19 Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 10:43, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

Also, this guy, a Louisiana politician who was about my age. Should I be afraid?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 11:51, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

bump Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 03:50, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

One of my fag hags linked this report on the cultural suppression in her county in PA.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 19:11, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

It's like that here too. Fauci's Fascists keep moving the goal posts on us, constantly resetting their timetables. The lack of an exit strategy even after their stupid silver bullet materialized, but they did not distribute it, is ruinous. Clearly it will drag on until we start voting the guilty governors out. I hope you've signed Newsom's recall petition. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:19, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't think any new governor would be any different, as shown by this news from the northern half of Jefferson.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 06:52, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Kristi Noem did a pretty good job of keeping the lights on.

But it seems to me that if an incumbent says "Anyone else would have done the same," what they're really saying is "I have no control over events, and won't take responsibility for my decision, I'm just drifting along on the currents of fate toward a future that's been written for me." Hardly an inspiring vision of leadership! At any rate, my response to that is "Then we'll be no worse off for having seen the back of you." Turtle Fan (talk) 15:45, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Vaccination

I have had my first vaccination for CV19. The second does will be on May 6 and it won't be effective until late May. Ever since this whole thing began, the end has been just around the corner.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 09:20, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

We're a few weeks away from being done with it, and always will be. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:23, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

My second shot went off without a hitch.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:14, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Glad to hear it. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:21, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Death toll

How many people have died directly from Covid-19 by now? I don't know which statistics are reliable.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 07:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

Exactly, there are way way too many incentives to inflate the numbers.

This is interesting, though: Singapore, whose population density exceeds Manhattan's, hasn't had thirty. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:53, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

Oregon resistance

A mayor fights back.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:16, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Theatre returns

I just went to a live theatre singing performance here in NorCal/SoJeff.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:02, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Advice for our times

Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 05:08, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Mid July 2021

How dangerous is the virus right now?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 10:30, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

Depends on how willing you are to be vaccinated: Toronto Star. Let's just say Florida is being DeSantisized. ML4E (talk) 15:11, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

I should hope you've got nothing to worry about if you're vaccinated. (And there's no longer any reason not to be, though officials who are now begging folks to come to their clinics were turning away willing patients half a year ago show it should have been first come first served.) If that's not the case then it validates what I said last year, that they should have come up with something more proactive, a treatment or an antidote, rather than tell people to hide under the bed indefinitely and abuse the criminal justice system to persecute those who didn't want to. Doing nothing might have also worked; remember how quickly SARS and swine flu came and went? The watch word was slow the spread, which is the last thing a sane person would want as it needlessly prolonged the suffering.

At any rate, let's please not let them say "back to the drawing board." Eradicating viruses is an exceedingly difficult process; the only time it's ever been done successfully was at the conclusion of a thousand-year campaign. So we'll have to tolerate it if it's not going to go away like most of them do. The only countermeasures the medical professionals seem willing to consider are incredibly unsustainable and have already caused an upsurge in poverty that's so severe we can't see the end of it. Our priority should be chipping away at that mountain, not making it even bigger. Turtle Fan (talk) 01:49, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

My town has returned pretty much to normal. But, what to make of "delta"?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 05:02, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Delta

Is Delta something to be afraid of? Nevada seems to be taking it seriously.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 20:54, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I wish the Tyrant of Nevada would take the tens of thousands of people who are homeless thanks to him seriously. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:10, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Celeb deaths

This article makes it seem like Covid 19 is a dangerously imminent raging juggernaut. Should we be very very afraid?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 05:33, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Why do you keep asking this? Form your own opinion based on your own lived experience! Don't live your life based on some trashy clickbait website that has compiled a list of elderly actors you've never heard of. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:22, 23 August 2021 (UTC)

Stephen King stretches truth

Stephen King gets called out for crying wolf on a "deaths per day" number.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 10:02, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

I'm well past caring. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:36, 13 September 2021 (UTC)

Dead children

Dead children from Covid reported here and here and here.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 06:34, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

And here. So? ML4E (talk) 16:31, 15 October 2021 (UTC)

This suggests that the CV-19 is much deadly than we thought, not so easy to dismiss.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 07:37, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

I see. It had been established fairly early in the pandemic that the older a patient was the more likely they would have serious complications which could result in death. However, there had been deaths among younger people and even children from the beginning. I recall there also was a syndrome (I don't recall its name) specifically affecting children under ten. Their immune system would over-react resulting in excessive inflammation especially of the lungs which could and did result in some deaths. I take it that it is something akin to anaphylactic shock though through a different biological process so it can't be treated as such. ML4E (talk) 16:32, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

And on top of that, you've gotten your shots, haven't you? You've done all you can, worrying beyond that will do you no good. Turtle Fan (talk) 09:13, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

I had my shots early on, then people keep shouting at me "but, the breakthroughs!" I'm on the verge of believing the whole caboodle is just crying wolf, but it niggles at me.

People need to shut up about the breakthroughs. All they're doing is providing the anti-vax holdouts with ammunition. Even if it is a danger, what's the alternative countermeasure that would protect us from that? What's that you say, there isn't one? Then let's just go about our business. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:54, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

On Saturday I attended a large gathering in my NoCal/SoJef town. There was a soapbox derby and a Halloween marathon where a disproportionate number of the running squads chose the same motif. It was a merry, upbeat day, and I was one of the few schmucks wearing a breath mask.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 09:32, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

Earlier today I was at a church picnic. It was all outdoors. I kept a neck gaiter in my back pocket but never put it on. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:54, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

This is a report from Health Canada on COVID cases among unvaccinated vs vaccinated Canadians. Unfortunately, I can't see "normalized" figures, that is, ajusted to reflect that 70-80% of eligible people are vaccinated. What jumps out is that 84.5% cases were unvaccinated wile 4.7% were fully vaccinated (two doses plus two weeks). Hospitalization numbers and deaths follow a similar pattern so I think that is justification for getting vaccinated even if there are breakthrough cases. ML4E (talk) 16:43, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

The problem is that anyone who can see the obvious justification for getting vaccinated did so months ago. Those who are still holding out are determined to grasp at thinner and thinner straws. That being the case, I'd strongly suggest retracting any thin straws we might find still dangling out there. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:51, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

True enough. I brought it up more to address Matthew's point about people telling him about "breakthrough cases". He seemed to need reassurance that getting vaccinated was the right thing to do. ML4E (talk) 16:26, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

I have never been in doubt that vaccination is the right way. Every time a new vaccine comes out, I line up for it. But the breakthrough cases make it seem as if the global emergency will never end.

And yes, it is the anti-vaxers, many of them MAGAheads, who are the biggest threat to North American health right now. If everyone accepted the vaccine, I'm sure Covid cases would decrease to a manageable minimum.

Yes, and I'm determined not to let their foolishness ruin things for the rest of us. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

The media is probably exaggerating the danger of Covid. As shown above, Stephen King was caught crying wolf. And looking closer at the celeb deaths listed above (and others who died more recently), context indicates that many of them, including Roy Horn, David Prowse, and Colin Powell, were already dying of cancer or some other irrevocable condition, and that the Covid was just the cherry on top. The sky is not falling quite as fast as the media would have you believe.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 18:41, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Bingo! Turtle Fan (talk) 14:21, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

A guy on another forum said "We managed to avoid the worst scenario case. But the worst scenario case feared by the experts wasn’t the end of the world. The worst scenario case was only a temporary saturation of the healthcare centers, which could lead to civil wars. About the mortality rate of the virus, from the very beginning it was known to be less than 10%. Only detractors would say that those who take the pandemic seriously were exaggerating in their measures, by depicting an unrealistic worst scenario case. But if nothing was done, the real worst scenario case said above would have happened. And that’s what the detractors failed to understand."Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 06:52, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Far be it from me to dispute "a guy on another forum," especially one who jumbles up the word order of common phrases. Turtle Fan (talk) 07:27, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

He is Swiss. His logic appears to make sense.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:09, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but looking over the whole history of this page, it does look like you're often convinced by the most recent thing you've read. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:47, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Madness Down Under

The quarantine policy in Australia makes Fauci seem positively sane.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 07:19, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Booster shot

I've got my third vaccination. The only reason this plague is still a problem is MAGAheads with their conspiracy theories about magnetism or whatever.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

I got it two weeks ago. Last winter getting the main sequence felt like a special occasion. The booster did not, though it did require me to drive across town to a different Walgreens from the one around the corner. The side effects were not as severe as when I finished the main sequence, but they did last much longer--three days--and the soreness at the injection site lasted longer too. In fact, I can still feel a slight wince if I press on it hard enough.

And yes, you're right as rain about who's been dragging this out. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:57, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Fauci's ridiculous list

This new list by Fauci's people pretty much says that any symptom of anything could be a sign of Covid. From dandruff to personality change to sores in the mouth to a mild fever to a sore throat to shortness of temper. So I guess now Fauci is redefining any symptom of any slight distubrance to perfect health at all, under the umbrella term "COVID". After all these cases of crying wolf, his credibility is plummeting.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 05:57, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

He's having a hard time letting go of his moment in the sun, that's for sure. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:58, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Victorian pandemic

This virus really has been with us longer than Fauci claims. See this historical era.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:58, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

You didn't read the article carefully. It says that some experts think the 1889–1890 pandemic may have been caused by Human coronavirus OC43. This is not SARS-CoV-2 that causes COVID-19 nor SARS-CoV-1 that cased SARS in 2002-2004. All three are coronaviruses but different viruses with different evolutionary histories; not one virus with a century old lineage. ML4E (talk) 21:23, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

I've never heard of this. Which leads me to think that, when you don't panic, and keep society running smoothly, life goes on, civilization recovers quickly, and historians find more interesting things to write about. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:53, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

It all depends on how many deaths you are willing to tolerate in the meantime. ML4E (talk) 21:38, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

We still tolerate automobile related deaths by not imposing a nationwide 3 weeks of "nobody drive any cars at all".Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 09:27, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

There are mandatory seat belt laws, airbags, bumpers and other safety features which are reasonable for the circumstances. Likewise driver tests and licensing. Quit being childish in your arguments. ML4E (talk) 16:45, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Those are sustainable measures that reduce the risk to an acceptably low level. We should have tried something like that with the virus instead of closing homeless shelters and giving their clients gym mats to lay down in parking spaces. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:48, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I'm sure all those Victorians would still be alive today if they'd been locked down then. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:17, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Lives cut short or lived to the full? Your choice based on collective action through democratically elected government. ML4E (talk) 16:45, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Were you living your life to the full two years ago? I wasn't. And I'm not at all sure I can now, either, what with my housing costs soaring as landlords price gouge in an attempt to recoup the massive deficits they were operating on then. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:48, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

May 2022

Newest item. "Wolf" has been cried so many times, I can't take it seriously anymore.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 07:15, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Indeed not. Besides, aren't we supposed to be crying monkey now? Turtle Fan (talk) 14:20, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

It should be safe enough over the summer, especially if people are vaxxed and boosted. Over the last couple of years COVID has had a similar pattern to the regular flu in that it peaks during cold weather. This is partly due to people being indoors more and so more likely to transmit the virus but also because the virus itself tends to be more transmissible in cooler air.

And what have people been doing to get the pox from monkeys? ;) ML4E (talk) 21:34, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

My default assumption with diseases that have animals' names attached is bestiality. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:10, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

Fauci's got it

Heads up.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

New strain BA5

This statement has been making the rounds. "BA.5 is an absolute beast y'all. Even if you just had Covid 3 weeks ago? You can get reinfected again right now by BA.5. It's THAT evasive of immunity."

Is it time to take it seriously?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 06:29, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

From NPR: 'BA.5 now dominant coronavirus strain across U.S. The highly infectious BA.5 Omicron subvariant of the coronavirus has become the dominant strain of COVID-19 in the United States, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Cases are rising, although it is hard for public health authorities to say how many there are because of home-testing not reported to government agencies. But hospitalizations have started rising. About 31,000 are now being treated for the virus in hospitals across the country, up 4.5 percent since a week ago. "Not only is it more infectious, but your prior immunity doesn't count for as much as it used to," said Dr. Bob Wachter, the chair of the Department of Medicine at the University of California, San Francisco.'Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 18:28, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Bumping for TurtleFan's return. Also, it looks like our main article is severely out of date.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:54, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm long past caring. Turtle Fan (talk) 08:10, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

What about everyone here? Was the right thing done these past two years? Should we be afraid or not?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 02:10, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Actually, here's something I saw recently: Thanks to the very restrictive countermeasures, there are an estimated 75 million more people in the world today living in extreme poverty than there would have been according to IMF predictions in late '19 had we all continued with business as usual. Given that extreme poverty is known to reduce life expectancy (the most conservative estimate I can find by a quick online search is fourteen years), well, so much for saving lives. Turtle Fan (talk) 20:45, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

What likely would have happened if we hadn't locked down over the Spring-Summer of 2020? (Maybe an actual AH will someday tackle this.)Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 02:23, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Maybe some day. If I had to take a stab at it I'd say it would have looked like swine flu. Remember how that came and went? You never heard about variants of that, because there's no opportunity for mutation if you don't "slow the spread."

Remember as well, there are a few happy places where a lack of lockdown wouldn't be AH at all, just H. Japan came through all right. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:22, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

And my region in NoCal/SoJef, which chucked pretty much all lockdown directions by late August 2020, and has gone along happily since then. What do our other delegates say?Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 06:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

What I think is the reduction in restrictions led me to GET COVID last week. Since I'm double vaxed and boosted, it was a mild cold. I have felt sicker previously but it did persist for longer. I tested positive on a rapid-test a week ago today and two negative tests yesterday and today mean its cleared. In late 2020, pre-vaccine? God only knows. ML4E (talk) 19:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

We never completed this discussion.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 13:19, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

I disagree, I've discussed it as extensively as I care to and then some. Turtle Fan (talk) 16:43, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Canada

Depending on what report is read or statistic is believed, spanking (and abuse) with children increased by about 300 percent in Canada during the lockdowns. General family violence, alcohol and drug use also increased similarly. Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 17:59, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I suspect the statistics will ultimately show that people who spend their downtime being drunken violent assholes engaged in those behaviors more when they had more downtime, as opposed to the implicit argument, which is that "good people" became drunken violent assholes when they couldn't go out. TR (talk) 19:48, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps, but the strain on mental health was catastrophic. One statistic that immediately leaps to mind is eight times as many calls to the suicide hotline between January and November 2020 as there had been between January and November 2019. I'm not aware of a significant number of people who spend their downtime being suicide hotline-calling assholes. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:40, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Bread loaf conference

What to make of this news? Should the threat be taken seriously? I have attended unmasked gatherings often in the past year, yet things like this don't happen.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 17:59, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Do as you see fit. I think the ability of this particular scarecrow to frighten the general population has played itself out. Turtle Fan (talk) 18:47, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

It has become a paper tiger.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 19:21, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Personally, I have taken to wearing a mask whenever I am using public transit. I understand it is primarily to prevent me from spreading any contagions I may unknowingly have but it also offers some protection to me. ML4E (talk) 15:42, 30 August 2023 (UTC)

I still like them on planes I guess. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:12, 31 August 2023 (UTC)