Did he die in 21 or 10? The article and template are in conflict. And why are we making 21 a link? Turtle Fan 00:29, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
I'm wondering if we should call him a "Cherusci' rather than "German" and then make that a sub-cat of "German"? From "Give Me Back My Legions!" there would be maybe a dozen characters (most historical) that would fit. ML4E 02:04, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
That sounds right to me. We use German as a nationality, not as an ethnicity, and there was no such nation at this time. Turtle Fan 02:31, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
Sounds good. TR 17:03, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
D.O.D. in GE[]
Does the story state he was killed and it happened at AD 9? The footnote is "Agrippa defeated the German "chief". Logically, this person was Arminius." That implies the Germanic tribes rose up around the same time but that doesn't mean the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest took place (see the entry). It is possible that Agrippa avoided that trap and the campaign continued past AD 9. Unless the story is specific, I thing it should be changed to "c.a. AD 9". That also assumes the novel explicitly states Arminius died in battle. If not, then it is possible he was captured and kept a prisoner in Rome rather than executed like Caratacus for instance. In OTL he was assassinated AD 21 so under that scenario, he might live to later than OTL. ML4E (talk) 19:12, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
- From the book "[Agrippa] beat the Germans and killed their chief." Pg. 42, HC. TR (talk) 19:19, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
- I agree that it should be c.a. AD 9. HT seems to be saying the Germans staged their uprising on the same schedule. HT discusses Teutoburg Forest in the context of OTL. The next paragraph, HT then says Augustus used Agrippa against the Germans. I think that means that instead of sending Varus as in OTL, he sent Agrippa right off and then Agrippa just got to work. But it's somewhat ambiguous. TR (talk) 19:19, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
- The implication seems to be that the ATL battle happened at the same time as Varus' OTL campaign. Butterflies don't fly too much in GE.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 07:31, February 1, 2016 (UTC)
- Based on: "Agrippa defeated the German chief". This does not in any way imply the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest took place. Agrippa is described as a better general. A better general would not lead three Legions into a trap where the terrain would not allow them to deploy in their usual formation. The Battle not taking place is not butterflies but a logical conclusion based on changed circumstances. Unless the novel explicitly states otherwise, I find it more likely the Battle did not take place and so Arminius' death cannot be assumed to have occurred at AD 9. ML4E (talk) 20:59, February 1, 2016 (UTC)
- HT has directly addressed the whole issue in another novel, Give Me Back My Legions!. Based on that work, HT views Varus as a man of modest talents who lucked his way into several successes before the disaster at Teutoburg Forest. HT even points out that Augustus wanted Tiberius to handle Germania, but Tiberius was busy in Syria.
- In GE, a character states that Agrippa "knew his business". Between that line and the whole of GMBML!, HT believes Agrippa wouldn't have been so incompetent and naive as to fall into the ambush Arminius set up in OTL.
- I skimmed Wikipedia's entry on the battle, and it seems that Arminius' uprising started in AD 9 in any universe. There just isn't any wiggle room, and HT has indicated that Varus-meets-Agrippa IS the relevant POD, so I'm comfortable with assuming AD 9 is the only option.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 22:46, February 9, 2016 (UTC)
- Does the essay say the Battle took place and that was where Agrippa won? I read the article in the bookstore when the collection first came out and don't recall that. If the essay says Agrippa replaced Varus without mentioning the Battle still took place, then the campaign to put down the Germanic uprising could have taken several years. I don't dispute it started AD 9, only that it ended with Arminius' defeat and death which could be later. ML4E (talk) 22:57, February 9, 2016 (UTC)
- My impression, which may or may not be accurate, was that Agrippa avoided the Teutoburg Wald altogether and nipped the German revolt in the bud in record time.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 23:01, February 9, 2016 (UTC)
Worldwar subsection[]
The anecdote about Monique's choice of words is a mildly interesting commentary on the political situation of her world, but it might be a little bit redundant.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 23:02, August 4, 2016 (UTC)
- Redundant? How? Turtle Fan (talk) 23:45, August 4, 2016 (UTC)
- Redundant to all the other plot points that hammer in the idea that France is Germany's bitch.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 03:17, August 5, 2016 (UTC)
- I'm fine with that, I was just wondering about Jonathan's word choice. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:52, August 5, 2016 (UTC)