Talk: People from the United Kingdom

I'm not sure double cat'ing people with e.g. English is necessary even though technically they would be both if living after the establishment of the UK. I would sub-cat Category:English People here and reserve the UK cat for only those described as "British". ML4E (talk) 17:28, October 31, 2017 (UTC)

I find the double catting to be overkill too. The UKPeople seems convenient for characters like the Gentleman Arsonist, who is given no background at all, so we can't say whether he's English, Scottish, Welsh, or Irish.

I also feel that there should be a category "Britons," for natives of Britain before the Saxon kingdoms were established. This includes Iceni, Catuvellani (sp?), Camelotians, and Nuggies.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 10:56, November 1, 2017 (UTC)

Do whatever with the UK cat. I don't care.

I'm equally indifferent to the Britons proposal. If we have enough of such people, go for it. The Nuggies would not count--they aren't human, let alone Britons. TR (talk) 16:49, November 1, 2017 (UTC)

Even if we leave out the Nuggies, we have King Arthur, Guinevere, Merlin, Morgan le Fay, Morvudd, Boudicca of the Iceni, Caratacus, Hengo, Epona, and Bonvica. That is a respectable number. The category description could be: "These people are from ethnic groups native to the British Isles, but do not fit into modern categories such as English People, Scots, or Welsh People. Some predate the formation of those distinctions, others may be from fictional nationalities from alternate timelines."JonathanMarkoff (talk) 18:48, November 2, 2017 (UTC)

So tell me Jonathan, why are you continuing to double cat. English / British? You and I think its unnecessary and TR is indifferent. I suppose we could wait for Turtle Fan to weigh in. ML4E (talk) 21:04, November 6, 2017 (UTC)

Colonist nationality category

I am wondering if there could be a category for British colonists - i.e., people born in the colonies, who are British but were not from England, Scotland, Wales, or Ireland. Pre-1776, the people of what is now the USA, such as George Washington and Benjamin Franklin, identified as both American and British - although at some point calling them British became like calling an ox a bull, which is why the American Revolution was needed.

I believe Franklin once said the ox would be grateful for the compliment but would still prefer to have what was taken from him restored, or words to that effect. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Then you have Alexander Hamilton, who was from some random pissant British colony in the Caribbean before he was Americanized,

Come to think of it, how does a bastard, orphan, son of a whore and a Scotsman, dropped in the middle of a forgotten spot in the Caribbean by Providence, impoverished, in squalor, grow up to be a hero and a scholar? Turtle Fan (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

and the modern people of Saint Helena, Gibraltar, Isle of Man, Guernsey, and Jersey, who are from similarly pissant crown colonies that aren't big enough to have a distinctive nationality. (I always assumed that the last 3 were part of England, or at least the UK proper, but it turns out they are colony-level possessions with some degree of autonomy. It's pretty odd.)

Yeah, the Channel Islands just have me confused. For awhile I was pretty friendly with a Manx guy due to one of my other online interests, and he tried to set me straight, but I just couldn't wrap my head around it. And I'm usually pretty good with those fine distinctions.

I do know that the population of the Isle of Man is so small that it only supports six high schools, though they don't call them high schools. They use the same terminology as the British education system, which is also a closed door to me. Turtle Fan (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

However, Rudyard Kipling and JRR Tolkien should be classed as English, because they grew up in England and identified as English even though they were born in colonies.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 05:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I've given this idea some thought in the past. I think we were waiting for a more viable category. TR (talk) 14:36, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree, we'd need much more. Especially since I'm quite sure we don't have any modern Manx, Channel Islanders, or Gibraltarians. (Or Falklanders, for that matter, or Pitcairnese, whose islands are strategically positioned just so that it's still accurate to say the sun never sets on the British Empire, and won't till a solar eclipse in the 26th century, assuming the UK retains its current possessions). Turtle Fan (talk) 14:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

We do have enough articles to justify the broad "People born subjects of the British Empire", akin to People Born in the Russian/German/Austro-Hungarian Empire categories. (I wouldn't worry about the Commonwealth.) TR (talk) 15:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

I think it would work right now for the pre-1776 Americans and pre-1775 Atlanteans alone. It would be a just in case for if HT gives a random Manxman, Jerseyite, or Gibraltarian.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 20:02, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Well, if it's got legs, let's do it. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:55, 21 May 2021 (UTC)