TR TR 9 days ago
0

Byzantine Emperors (Rescued from Obscurity)

The office of Emperor of the Roman Empire in the East (retroactively renamed Emperor of the Byzantine Empire) was never formally created, but instead gradually "spun off" from the of the original Roman Empire. In 330, Roman Emperor Constantine I moved his capital to Constantinople, the city formerly known as Byzantium, which remained the seat of power of the Eastern Empire after the schism with the Western subdivision. The Byzantine Emperors all claimed rulership of "the Romans" until Constantinople's fall to the Ottoman Empire in 1453 AD. The title of all Byzantine Emperors until the reign (610-641) of Herakleios, was officially "Augustus," although other titles such as Dominus were also used. Their names were preceded by Imperator Caesar …

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ML4E ML4E 7 April
4

Stay-At-Home Order - April 2021

Well it looks like we are having another major lock-down in Ontario. Effective midnight, everyone is to stay home unless you are an essential worker required to work outside of your home and to make essential purchases (food medicine, etc.) On the other hand, non-essential purchases can be made online and picked up curb-side. Go figure.

In any case, I will be off-line until May. Hopefully, this wiill be the last one since the Province hopes to have 40% of the population vaccinated by then, especially in work and residential hot-spots. Take care all!

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TR TR 27 February
0

Monarchs of Persia/Iran (rescued from obscurity)

Harry Turtledove has altered the long lived monarchy of Persia, later known as Iran, in several works.


  • 1 Agent of Byzantium
  • 2 "Counting Potsherds"
  • 3 Crosstime Traffic
  • 4 Other monarchs
  • 5 See also

The Persian Empire was the Roman Empire's chief rival. It was ruled by the King of Kings, assisted by the Grand Wazir.

Known Kings of Kings:

  • Khosrau II, incumbent in "Departures", set c. 605.
  • Unnamed monarch, whose reign includes 1316 ("Archetypes") and 1320 ("Superwine").

Under Khsrish I the Conqueror, the Persian Empire completely subdued the Yauna. While Persia remained master of the Western world four centuries later, its royal family was not immune to the temptation of kinslaying.

King of Kings Khsrish I
Numerous unnamed kings
(Presumably including Khsrish II…



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TR TR 10 February
1

Or Even Eagle Flew

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TR TR 25 January
0

Speaker of the US House of Representatives (Rescued from obscurity)

The Speaker of the House is the presiding officer of the U.S. House of Representatives. The office is permitted by Article 1, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, although the actual process for selecting the Speaker comes from rules adopted by the House, rather than the Constitution. Generally, the Speaker is elected from the majority party in the House. The Speaker is second in the United States presidential line of succession, after the Vice President of the United States.


  • 1 Southern Victory
    • 1.1 Literary comment
  • 2 Other Speakers
  • 3 Historical Speakers in non-Speaker roles
  • 4 Confederate States Speaker of the House

During the Remembrance Era in United States history, from the 1880s to the 1910s, the office of Speaker of the House was monopolized…


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TR TR 19 January
0

SLOTUS

Not creating a page, just a quick list for my own review.

  • Barbara Bush
  • Karen Pence
  • Bess Truman
  • Flora Blackford
  • Susan Daggett
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ML4E ML4E 23 December 2020
4

Lock-down Expansion

We have been in a partial lock-down for the last month but cases have been growing. The Provincial Government has announced enhanced measures effective December 26. This will include the shut-down of Public Libraries for 28 days minimum. Since I haven't made alternate arrangements, I will be off line until the end of January at the earliest. I wish each and everyone of you Happy Holidays / Merry Christmas and for a better 2021.

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TR TR 19 December 2020
0

Miscellaneous POTUS Elections

  • 1 President of the United States
    • 1.1 "The Breaking of Nations"
      • 1.1.1 2020
    • 1.2 Southern Victory
      • 1.2.1 1864
      • 1.2.2 1868 and 1872
      • 1.2.3 1876
      • 1.2.4 1884, 1888, 1892, 1896, 1900, 1904, and 1908
    • 1.3 Worldwar
      • 1.3.1 1960
  • 2 Congressional Elections
    • 2.1 The Hot War
    • 2.2 Joe Steele
    • 2.3 The Man With the Iron Heart
    • 2.4 Southern Victory
    • 2.5 The War That Came Early
    • 2.6 Worldwar
    • 2.7 References

While Harry Turtledove does not depict every presidential election or describe them in sufficient detail to justify articles, he does sometimes provide information about the victor or the loser of a given election, which in turn may be an important detail in the history of a fictional timeline.


Donald Trump won re-election in 2020. He died during the second COVID-19 outbreak in 2024. His vice president wa…

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ML4E ML4E 21 November 2020
1

Lock-down 2.0

As of Monday, Toronto and Peel Region (communities immediately to the west or Toronto) will go into a tighter lock-down for 28 days. Bars and restaurants will be restricted to only pick-up and delivery. Stores, aside from essentials like grocery and drugstores, will no longer allow people inside. Online and phone orders will allow for curbside pick-up. Barbers, hair salons etc. will be closed.

For me, I still haven't set up home internet and am using the public library. Apparently, all branches will be closed Monday and Tuesday to reorganize their layouts but will have computer access as of Wednesday so I will be back shortly. If you do not hear from me, it may be due to a change in this with little warning.

I am skeptical about the length o…

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TR TR 18 November 2020
0

US Reps for my edification

  • 1 California
  • 2 Georgia
  • 3 Illinois
  • 4 Kentucky
  • 5 Louisiana
  • 6 Maine
  • 7 Massachusetts
  • 8 Minnesota
  • 9 Missouri
  • 10 Mississippi
  • 11 Nebraska
  • 12 New Hampshire
  • 13 New Jersey
  • 14 New York
  • 15 North Carolina
  • 16 Ohio
  • 17 Oregon
  • 18 Pennsylvania
  • 19 South Carolina
  • 20 Tennessee
  • 21 Texas
  • 22 Utah
  • 23 Virginia
  • 24 West Virginia
  • 25 Wisconsin
  • Helen Gahagan Douglas
  • Colin McCarty
  • Richard Nixon
  • Devin Nunes
  • William Rosecrans
  • Jerry Voorhis
  • Sam Yorty
  • Lucius Gartrell
  • Julian Hartridge
  • Alexander Stephens
  • Everett Dirksen
  • Stephen Douglas
  • Stephen A. Hurlbut
  • Abraham Lincoln
  • Donald Rumsfeld
  • Alben Barkley
  • John Breckinridge
  • Fred Vinson
  • John Slidell
  • James G. Blaine
  • Daniel Gooch
  • Hannibal Hamlin
  • Edward C. Moran Jr.
  • Thomas Reed
  • John Quincy Adams
  • Benjamin Butler
  • Jim Curley
  • Edward Everett
  • John F. Kennedy
  • Henry Cabot Lodge
  • Joseph W. Martin
  • Harold Knutson
  • Eugene McCarthy
  • C…
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TR TR 15 November 2020
0

US Senators by State for my edification

  • 1 Alabama
  • 2 Arkansas
  • 3 Arizona
  • 4 California
  • 5 Colorado
  • 6 Connecticut
  • 7 Florida
  • 8 Georgia
  • 9 Idaho
  • 10 Illinois
  • 11 Indiana
  • 12 Kentucky
  • 13 Louisiana
  • 14 Maine
  • 15 Massachusetts
  • 16 Michigan
  • 17 Minnesota
  • 18 Mississippi
  • 19 Missouri
  • 20 Montana
  • 21 Nebraska
  • 22 New York
  • 23 North Carolina
  • 24 Ohio
  • 25 Pennsylvania
  • 26 Rhode Island
  • 27 South Carolina
  • 28 Tennessee
  • 29 Texas
  • 30 Utah
  • 31 Virginia
  • 32 Wisconsin
  • Hugo Black
  • Charles Burton Mitchel
  • Barry Goldwater
  • John C. Frémont
  • Hiram Johnson
  • Richard Nixon
  • Michael Bennet
  • Prescott Bush
  • Stephen R. Mallory
  • Richard Russell
  • William Borah
  • Everett Dirksen
  • Stephen Douglas
  • Barack Obama
  • Benjamin Harrison
  • Alben Barkley
  • John Breckinridge
  • Judah Benjamin
  • Huey Long
  • John Slidell
  • James G. Blaine
  • Hannibal Hamlin
  • Frederick G. Payne
  • John Quincy Adams
  • Edward Everett
  • John F. Kennedy
  • Edward Kennedy
  • Henry Cabot Lodge
  • Henry Cabot Lo…
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ML4E ML4E 13 November 2020
1

COVID-19 Lock down

Well its Friday the 13th and it looks like Toronto and surroundings maybe headed for another lock down. The last time was Friday March 13th. We had the case numbers down to about a hundred new ones each day in early September so the province began lifting restrictions, including restarting physical Public School classes. Not unexpectedly, the case numbers rose once more to a plateau of about 600 a day which was the peak in the first wave. However, we are doing considerably more test per day (40,000 vs 12-15,000 then) so it wasn't that concerning. The other factor was that hospitalization remained low compared to then (100 vs 1000).

But in the last week the numbers began climbing substantially to 1475 yesterday. We also had a pres conference…

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TR TR 10 November 2020
0

Of State Govs and such

  • 1 Arkansas
  • 2 California
  • 3 Colorado
  • 4 Connecticut
  • 5 Georgia
  • 6 Hawaii
  • 7 Idaho
  • 8 Illinois
  • 9 Indiana
  • 10 Kansas
  • 11 Kentucky
  • 12 Louisiana
  • 13 Maine
  • 14 Massachusetts
  • 15 Minnesota
  • 16 Mississippi
  • 17 Montana
  • 18 Nevada
  • 19 New Jersey
  • 20 New Mexico
  • 21 New York
  • 22 North Carolina
  • 23 Ohio
  • 24 Oregon
  • 25 Pennsylvania
  • 26 Rhode Island
  • 27 South Category
  • 28 Tennessee
  • 29 Texas
  • 30 Utah
  • 31 Virginia
  • 32 Washington
  • 33 Wisconsin
  • 34 Wyoming
  • Bill Clinton

Category:Governors of California

  • Daniel I.J. Thornton
  • Unnamed Governor of Colorado (Supervolcano)
  • Governor of Connecticut

Category:Governors of Georgia (OTL)

  • Unnamed Governor of Hawaii (The Breaking of Nations)
  • Unnamed Governor of Idaho (Supervolcano)
  • Adlai Stevenson II
  • Mike Pence
  • Alf Landon
  • Ruby Laffoon
  • Beriah Magoffin
  • Huey Long
  • Huey Long's Brothers
  • Hannibal Hamlin
  • Frederick G. Payne

Category:Governors o…

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TR TR 9 November 2020
1

Lt. Governors

For my own edification.

  • Edward Clark
  • Warren G. Harding
  • Richard Taylor Jacob
  • Miguel Narváez
  • Al Rafferty
  • Davis Lee Vidals
  • Unnamed Lieutenant Governor of Connecticut (The Breaking of Nations)
  • Unnamed Lieutenant Governor of Massachusetts (Southern Victory)
  • Unnamed Lieutenant Governor of Nevada (The Breaking of Nations)
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ML4E ML4E 22 February 2020
3

Color Codes Used

A summary of the various hex color codes by story template.

Story
Color
Hex Code After the Downfall

967117 After the Last Elf is Dead

4A1C78 Agent of Byzantium

702963 Alpha and Omega

E63E62 Atlantis

97CD2D The Banner of Kaviyan

1C39BB The Barbecue, the Movie, & Other Unfortunately Not So Relevant Material

A21E1E Batboy

FF4500 A Beak for Trends

B94A46 Bedfellows

9F4959 Before the Beginning

F6782C Between the Rivers

ECD540 Birdwitching

FECC2A Black Tulip

463542 The Bleeding Moon

FCFEDA Bluethroats

76ABDF Bluff

E7A83E The Boring Beast

FFFED6 But It Does Move

C41E3A The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump

B3C70C The Castle of the Sparrowhawk

F89EF3 The Catcher in the Rhine

B784A7 Cayos in…
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JCC the Alternate Historian JCC the Alternate Historian 26 January 2020
1

My Weird Crypid/Fictional Creatures Dream

A little while ago, I had a interesting dream regarding several crypids and fictional fantasy and folklore animals existing as real animals. The list of animals follows:

  • The Unicorn
  • The Jackalope
  • Sasquatch/Bigfoot/Skunk ape
  • Yeti
  • Chupacabra
  • Lake monsters that are either are or based on the Plesiosaurus (The Loch Ness Monster, the Champ, ect)
  • 1 Unicorns
  • 2 Jackalopes
  • 3 Sasquatch
  • 4 Yeti
  • 5 Chupacabra
  • 6 Lake Monsters

The unicorn in my dream was a domesticated equid much like that of a horse or a donkey, which they coexisted with. They basically were horses with a horn on their heads. Strangely, the hoofs in my dream where inconsistent. Sometimes, they had hooves resembling those of horses and donkeys while other times they had cloven hoofs with an odd number of toe…


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JCC the Alternate Historian JCC the Alternate Historian 27 December 2019
2

Which of Turtledove's Works Could Be Made Into Movies?

This subject has been buzzing in my head for the past few years guys. If any of Harry Turtledove's were to made into movies, which ones could potentially be the best ones?

Here are some of his works in my opinion that would make some potentially good films.

  • The Southern Victory Series
  • The Worldwar franchise
  • The Guns of the South
  • The Two Georges

--JCC the Alternate Historian (talk) 22:35, December 27, 2019 (UTC)

In all honesty, Hollywood is running out of ideas these days and there is plenty of untapped potential with alternate history books being adapted into films. There's only a couple of examples I can think of when thinking of alternate history working as either a movie or a TV series (Fatherland back in 1994, the Man in the High Castle as a …

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JCC the Alternate Historian JCC the Alternate Historian 24 December 2019
2

How Jefferson Would've Likely Voted in Past Elections

Geez, I haven't touched my blog in over a year! Well time to add more blog posts again.

I originally posted the "How Jefferson Likely Voted in Past Elections" on the Republican Party talk page, but I was told that my blog would probably be a better spot for it.

Here, I put down how the area composing of Jefferson would have voted in past United States presidential elections looking at election maps of the counties of both California and Oregon. Might not be 100% accurate.

I should note that this represents the area of Jefferson in OTL. I'm not sure how the demographics of Sasquatches and other similar creatures that assimilated into human culture would have voted in Jefferson in past elections.

  • 1920: A landslide win for Warren G. Harding.
  • 1924:…
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Matthew Babe Stevenson Matthew Babe Stevenson 19 December 2019
0

Van's flashback characters

Throughout the Elabon Series, Van of the Strong Arm narrates tales of his adventures before he met Gerin the Fox. These anecdotes have little relevance to the plot, and often seem like separate stories. In addition, it is suggested that Van is an unreliable narrator, calling the in-universe veracity of these stories into question. Below are a list of characters from Van's flashbacks.

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Matthew Babe Stevenson Matthew Babe Stevenson 11 October 2019
0

Category: Party Leaders

In a governmental system, a party leader acts as the official representative of their political party. The party leader is typically responsible for managing the party's relationship with the general public. As such, they will take a leading role in developing and communicating party policy, especially election platforms, to the electorate. They are also typically the public face of the respective party and the principal media contact.

In many parliamentary systems, party leaders compete directly for high political office. It is thus typical in such states (e.g., in the Westminster system, which gave rise to the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom) for the party leader to seek election to the legislature, and, if elected, to simultaneously s…

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Matthew Babe Stevenson Matthew Babe Stevenson 15 August 2019
0

Historical references

These are my proposed additions to References to Historical Figures in Turtledove's Work.


  • 1 Attila the Hun
  • 2 William, Count of Mortain
  • 3 William of York
  • 4 References

Attila (c. 406 – March 453), frequently referred to as Attila the Hun, was the ruler of the Huns from 434 until his death. Attila was a leader of the Hunnic Empire, a tribal confederation consisting of Huns, Ostrogoths, and Alans among others, on the territory of Central and Eastern Europe.

During his reign, he was one of the most feared enemies of the Western and Eastern Roman Empires. However, little about the man behind the power is known; Attila's religion and his basic appearance, for example, remain matters of conjecture.

Turtledove has referenced Attila's fearsome reputation in nume…


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Matthew Babe Stevenson Matthew Babe Stevenson 7 May 2019
0

Literary allusions

These are my proposed additions to Literary Allusions in Turtledove's Work.


  • 1 Alexander Afanasyev
  • 2 David Brin
  • 3 Dan Brown
  • 4 References

Alexander Nikolayevich Afanasyev (Александр Николаевич Афанасьев) (23 July [O.S. 11 July] 1826 — 5 October [O.S. 23 September] 1871) was a Russian Slavist and ethnographer who published nearly 600 Russian fairy and folk tales, one of the largest collections of folklore in the world. The first edition of his collection was published in eight volumes from 1855–67, earning him the reputation as being the Russian counterpart to the Brothers Grimm. Most of the definitive Baba Yaga legends were first transcribed by Afanasyev. Arguably the internationally best-known example is "Vasilisa the Beautiful", wherein an indentur…


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Matthew Babe Stevenson Matthew Babe Stevenson 1 May 2019
1

Minor Fictional Characters in Laura Frankos Short Stories

This article lists the various minor fictional characters who appear in the short fiction of Laura Frankos. These characters are identified by name or profession, but play at best a peripheral role in their respective stories. Most were simply mentioned or had a very brief, unimportant speaking role that did not impact the plot, and never appeared again.

Note: All characters from "Slue-Foot Sue and the Witch in the Woods" are adapted from other works.

Barbara Hatcher was the wife of Benjamin Hatcher. Because she had allergies, Benjamin kept Ptolemy III, his late grandmother's scarlet macaw, at his office.

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 27 April 2019
1

Detinan Deities

The people of Detina believed that their destiny was interlocked that of several divine beings. Both the indigenous blond people and dark-haired colonists who founded the Kingdom of Detina believed in at least two sets of gods. However, belief was not the same as respect and worship. After the conquest of western Detina, the defeated blonds continued believing in their own gods. Nevertheless, some of them believed that these gods, while truly existing, were weak and unworthy of worship, and began to worship the conquering people's gods instead.


  • 1 Gods of the Blonds
    • 1.1 Death Lord
    • 1.2 Red Lady
  • 2 Gods of the Kingdom of Detina
    • 2.1 Hunt Lady
    • 2.2 Sweet One
    • 2.3 Thunderer
  • 3 Other
    • 3.1 Mount Panamgam
      • 3.1.1 Literary comment
    • 3.2 References

Death Lord was the god of death in …


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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 5 April 2019
2

Monarch of the United Kingdom, with portals for Monarch of England and Monarch of Scotland

The monarch of the United Kingdom is the head of state of the United Kingdom and its overseas territories in the broader Commonwealth of Nations. There have been 12 monarchs of the United Kingdom proper, although the monarchy traces its origins back to both the monarchies of the Angles and the ancient Scots kings. The Kingdom of Great Britain was formed by the Acts of Union on 1 May 1707 with the merger of the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland, which had been in personal union under the House of Stuart since March 1603. On 1 January 1801 Great Britain merged with the Kingdom of Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. After most of Ireland left the union on 6 December 1922, its name was amended to the Unit…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 16 January 2019
1

Visual arts references in Turtledove's Work

Like many authors, Harry Turtledove references the broad impact which painting, drawing, sculpture, and their creators have had on society. Sometimes, these references can give a reader insight into how a particular timeline differs from OTL. Other times, they are more incidental and designed to invoke a specific era or culture. What follows is a list of such references which can be found in Turtledove's body of work, organized by the artist.

Note: As many homages are subtle, they can easily escape the notice of any given reader. Therefore we strongly encourage anyone who has found, or believes he has found, an homage not already on this list, or by an author not represented, to add it.

Jean-Honoré Fragonard (4 April 1732 – 22 August 1806) w…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 26 December 2018
1

Monarch of the United Kingdom (plus Monarch of England)

The monarch of the United Kingdom is the head of state of the United Kingdom and its overseas territories in the broader Commonwealth of Nations. There have been 12 monarchs of United Kingdom proper, although the monarchy traces its origins back to both the monarchies of the Angles and the ancient Scots kings. The Kingdom of Great Britain was formed by the Acts of Union on 1 May 1707 with the merger of the Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland, which had been in personal union under the House of Stuart since March 1603. On 1 January 1801 Great Britain merged with the Kingdom of Ireland to form the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. After most of Ireland left the union on 6 December 1922, its name was amended to the United K…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 27 October 2018
0

Ruler of India (for my amusement)

India has a millennia-long recorded history, with numerous forms of head of state and government. Since 1950, the head of state has been the President, and since 1947 the Head of Government has been the Prime Minister. Governments prior to 1947 were primarily monarchical, with the Monarch of the United Kingdom doubling as Emperor or Empress of India from 1877 until 1947.

The following individuals ruled India during or after the point of divergence of one of Harry Turtledove's alternate history timelines. Most Turtledove PODs occur when India is a part of the British Empire.

Many stories contain references to rulers who died before the POD. Stories set in the history of OTL may reference the incumbent ruler. These do not belong here.


  • 1 Southern Victo…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 19 August 2018
0

Ruler of Hungary

Throughout its history, Hungary has changed its form of government several times.

The Kingdom of Hungary existed from AD 1000 to 1946. It was a power in Central Europe throughout the Middle Ages, but in the 16th Century, part of Hungary was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, a Principality of Transylvania, with Royal Hungary under the reign of the House of Hapsburg.

In 1867, Hungary joined with the Austrian Empire, creating the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with the Austrian Emperor also holding the Hungarian throne. At the end of World War I, the empire collapsed, and Hungary saw a series of abortive republics (including a communist soviet) from 1918 to 1920, until the kingdom was re-established. Ironically, the sole head of state was Miklos Horthy…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 18 August 2018
0

Ruler of Austria

Austria has had several forms of government throughout its history. It was a margraviate from 976 to 1156, a duchy from 1156 to 1457, and an archduchy from 1457 to 1804. Throughout this period, Austria was a constituent state of the Holy Roman Empire. During the archduchy period, most of the Holy Roman Emperors also held the title of Archduke of Austria. In 1804, the Emperor Francis II proclaimed Austria an empire itself, and two years later, dissolved the Holy Roman Empire. The ruler of Austria was the Emperor of Austria until 1918. In 1867, the Empire of Austria was united with the Kingdom of Hungary, and this union was commonly known as Austria-Hungary. That union dissolved in 1918 at the close of World War I, and Austria became a repub…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 23 July 2018
2

Rulers of Persia and Iran

Throughout its long history, Persia, later known as Iran, has had a variety of governments, most of them monarchical in nature. Since 1979, Iran has been a republic. The fiction of Harry Turtledove has altered the history and government of Persia aka Iran in numerous ways.


  • 1 Agent of Byzantium
  • 2 "Counting Potsherds"
  • 3 Crosstime Traffic
  • 4 Other rulers
  • 5 Historical rulers in non-ruling roles
  • 6 See also

The Persian Empire was the Roman Empire's chief rival. It was ruled by the King of Kings, assisted by the Grand Wazir.

Known Kings of Kings:

  • Khosrau II, incumbent in "Departures", set c. 605.
  • Unnamed monarch, whose reign includes 1316 ("Archetypes") and 1320 ("Superwine").

Known Grand Wazirs:

  • Unnamed Grand Wazir in 1317, referenced in "Images."

Under Khsrish I th…






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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 23 July 2018
2

Ruler of Italy

Italy has had many forms of government in its intermittent history as a nation. The most common head of state titles have been King and President, while the head of government has most often used the title of Prime Minister. Nevertheless, there have been occasional exceptions. Harry Turtledove has made even more changes to Italy's governing style in his fiction.


  • 1 The Gladiator
  • 2 In the Presence of Mine Enemies
    • 2.1 Known Kings
    • 2.2 Known Duci
  • 3 Through Darkest Europe
  • 4 Other rulers
  • 5 Historical rulers in non-ruling roles

In the home timeline, Italy's parliamentary republic, established in the 1940s, remained in effect more than 150 years later. In 2097, the incumbent Prime Minister was frequently criticized in the press.

In an alternate where communism won …


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7

If the Entente Powers Won the Great War in Southern Victory

  • 1 The Topic
  • 2 The Discussion of What Might Happen
    • 2.1 The End of the First Great War
    • 2.2 Peace Treaties and Territory Changes
    • 2.3 Interwar Period (1918-1929)
      • 2.3.1 United States
      • 2.3.2 Confederate States and Canada
      • 2.3.3 The Rest of the World
    • 2.4 The Rise of Gordon McSweeney (1920s-1933)
      • 2.4.1 The Great Depression
    • 2.5 List of US Presidents
    • 2.6 List of CS Presidents
    • 2.7 Possible Maps and Alternate History Topics

In the Southern Victory Series, we already know that the Central Powers (the United States, Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire) won both the Great War and the Second Great War against the Entente Powers (the Confederate States, the United Kingdom, France and Russia).

However, wasn't it one of Harry Turtledove's original plans to have the US and th…

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2

States the Republicans Won in Joe Steele (Guesses and Speculation)

In Joe Steele (both the novel and the short story), we obviously already know that Joe Steele would win his six presidential elections by landslide margins. However, we don't always know how many electoral votes and states his rivals got in the elections. So far, going by both the short story and novel, we already know some of the results for the loosing candidates in the six elections. They are:

  • In 1932, Herbert Hoover wins 59 electoral votes from the six states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Vermont. The short story mentions the states he won but the novel doesn't go into much detail on that. However, we should assume that Hoover still won the same states as he did in both the short story and OTL.
  • In 1936,…
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1

Republican Vice Presidential candidates in Joe Steele (Guesses and Speculation)

In the novel Joe Steele, the only two Republican Vice Presidential candidates that are either mentioned or presumed to have served as in OTL. They are Charles Curtis (who presumably served under Herbert Hoover as in OTL and attempted to run as his running mate again in 1932) and Frank Knox (who ran with Alf Landon in 1936 as in OTL).

Since those were the only two Republican Vice Presidential candidates who were mentioned at all, I think we should speculate on could have been the running mates of Wendell Willkie in 1940, Thomas Dewey in 1944, Harold Stassen in 1948 and Robert Taft in 1952.

After having a discussion with TR down in the comment section, we decided to have McNary and Bricker still be the GOP VP candidates to Willkie and Dewey, r…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 10 June 2018
0

Prime Minister of Canada

The Prime Minister of Canada (French: Premier ministre du Canada) is the primary minister of the Crown, chairman of the Cabinet, and thus Canada's head of government, charged with advising the Canadian monarch or Governor General of Canada on the exercise of the executive powers vested in them by the constitution. Not outlined in any constitutional document, the office exists only as per long-established convention (originating in Canada's former colonial power, the United Kingdom) that stipulates the monarch's representative, the governor general, must select as prime minister the person most likely to command the confidence of the elected House of Commons; this individual is typically the leader of the political party that holds the largest…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 9 June 2018
1

Governor of California (for shits and giggles)

The Governor of California is the head of government of the U.S. state of California. The California Governor is the chief executive of the state government and the commander-in-chief of the California National Guard and the California State Military Reserve.

Established in the Constitution of California, the governor's responsibilities also include making the annual State of the State address to the California State Legislature, submitting the budget, and ensuring that state laws are enforced. The position was created in 1849, the year before California became a state.

As of this writing, Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown Jr. is the longest-serving governor, surpassing Earl Warren's 10-year tenure in 2013.

Earl Warren is referenced as the incumbent Gove…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 8 June 2018
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Attorney General of the United States

The United States Attorney General (A.G.) is the head of the United States Department of Justice per 28 U.S.C. § 503, concerned with all legal affairs, and is the chief lawyer of the United States government. In cases of the federal death penalty, the power to seek the death penalty rests with the Attorney General.

Under Article II Section 2 of the Constitution, the Attorney General is nominated by the President and appointed with the advice and consent of Congress. The Constitution is clear that the Attorney General may be impeached by Congress. As to whether the Attorney General may be summarily removed by the President, no provision of the Constitution grants this power. The decisional law suggests that the President has the power to remov…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 4 June 2018
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Secretary of War of the Confederate States

The Confederate States Secretary of War was a member of the Confederate States President's Cabinet during the American Civil War. The Secretary of War was head of the Confederate States Department of War. The position ended in May 1865 when the Confederacy crumbled.

The Secretary of War, a Confederate cabinet position, was the chief officer of the Confederate War Department. Answerable to President Jefferson Davis, the Secretary of War controlled all matters regarding the Confederate States Army and Native Americans, and had the right to appoint as many clerks as necessary. This designation allowed the Secretary of War to create what eventually became the biggest department in the Confederacy. The President had the power to appoint and fire t…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 4 June 2018
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Secretary of the Interior of the United States (just to see it)

The United States Secretary of the Interior is the head of the United States Department of the Interior, founded in 1849. The Department of the Interior oversees such agencies as the Bureau of Land Management, the United States Geological Survey, and the National Park Service. The Secretary also serves on and appoints the private citizens on the National Park Foundation board. The Secretary is a member of the President's Cabinet and is eighth in the presidential line of succession.

While the Department of the Interior hasn't been front and center in Harry Turtledove's work, he has been known to make fictional use of it.

Secretary of the Interior
Term
Party
President Henry Wallace

1937-1942
Socialist
Al Smith Harry Hopkins

1942-1945…
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Weird Alternate/Future History Dreams and Thoughts

Has anyone ever had any weird alternate/future history dreams or thoughts they would like to share?


  • 1 The YK2 Series
  • 2 Alta California-ay Series
  • 3 Various Other Dreams
    • 3.1 Christian Fundamentalist Dream
    • 3.2 Myself as a Dictator/President of the USA

My first alternate history dream (or more like a series of dreams about the same topic) that I'll partly share was called Y2K. The alternate history dream's Point of Divergence occurred on December 31, 1999/January 1, 2000 was about the Y2K Bug actually happening and the new millennium starting off with a huge bang! Millions to billions dead by morning with nukes destroyed most major cities around the world. The US Government was likely screwed since Washington, DC was hit hard by nukes. We survivors didn'…


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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 2 June 2018
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Secretary of War/the Navy/Defense of the United States (for my amusement)

The Secretary of War was a member of the United States President's Cabinet, beginning with George Washington's administration. A similar position, called either "Secretary at War" or "Secretary of War", had been appointed to serve the Congress of the Confederation under the Articles of Confederation between 1781 and 1789.

The Secretary of War was the head of the War Department. At first, he was responsible for all military affairs, including naval affairs. In 1798, the Secretary of the Navy was created by statute, and the scope of responsibility for the War Department was reduced to the affairs of the United States Army. From 1886 onward, the Secretary of War was in the line of succession to the presidency, after the Vice President of the Unit…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 31 May 2018
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Heads of State of Mexico (just to see what it looks like)

The Head of State in Mexico is the person who controls the executive power in the country. Under the current constitution, this responsibility lies with the President of the United Mexican States, who is head of the supreme executive power of the Mexican Union. Throughout its history, Mexico has had several forms of government. Under the federal constitutions, the title of President was the same as the current. Under the Seven Laws (centralist), the chief executive was named President of the Republic. In addition, there have been two periods of monarchical rule, during which the executive was controlled by the Emperor of Mexico.

The chronology of the heads of state of Mexico is complicated due to the country's political instability during the 1…

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TR TR 30 May 2018
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Chancellor of Germany (because I want to see what it looks like)

The Chancellor of Germany is the head of government of Germany. In German politics the Chancellor is equivalent to that of a Prime Minister in many other countries.

The office of Chancellor has a long history, stemming back to the Holy Roman Empire. The title was at times used in several states of German-speaking Europe. The modern office of Chancellor was established with the North German Confederation, of which Otto von Bismarck became Chancellor in 1867. After the Unification of Germany in 1871, the office became known in German as Reichskanzler, although it continued to be referred to as Chancellor in English.

With the collapse of the empire in 1918, a republic, known as the Weimar Republic, was formed, with a presidential office replacing th…

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TR TR 13 May 2018
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Seven Princes of Kuusamo

Just a quick list since Jonathan is on the Darkness kick. Gleaned these from Amazon search inside.

  • Jauhainen/Juhainen (TtD, JotD, OotD) (nephew and successor of Joroinen)
  • Joroinen (ItD, DD)
  • Parainen (DD)
  • Renavall (RotD)
  • Rustolainen (DD)

Not sure how we want to handle the whole concept of the Seven Princes.

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 11 May 2018
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Sultan of the Ottoman Empire (for my amusement)

The Sultans of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish: Osmanlı padişahları), sometimes referred to by outsiders as the "Grand Turk,", were all members of the Ottoman dynasty (House of Osman), which ruled over the transcontinental empire from its perceived inception in 1299 to its dissolution in 1922. At its height, the Ottoman Empire spanned an area from Hungary in the north to Yemen in the south, and from Algeria in the west to Iraq in the east. Administered at first from the city of Bursa, the empire's capital was moved to Edirne in 1363 following its conquest by Murad I, and then to Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 following its conquest by Mehmed II. The capture of Istanbul was the end of the Byzantine Empire, and henceforth the Sultans added "Emper…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 8 April 2018
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Governor of New York (for my amusement)

The Governor of the State of New York is the chief executive of the U.S. state of New York. The governor is the head of the executive branch of New York's state government and the commander-in-chief of the state's military and naval forces.

Harry Turtledove has fictionalized the New York Governorship as follows.


  • 1 Joe Steele
  • 2 Southern Victory
    • 2.1 Literary comment
  • 3 Other Governors
  • 4 Historical Governors in non-gubernatorial roles

Only two Governors are identified:


  • Franklin D. Roosevelt (Democrat) is Governor from January 1929 until July 1932, when he is killed in an arson fire. This happens identically in both the novel and the short story. He was probably succeeded by Lt. Gov. Herbert H. Lehman, but this is not stated.

  • Thomas Dewey (Republican) is incum…

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 26 March 2018
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Byzantine Emperor (for my amusement)

The office of Emperor of the Roman Empire in the East (retroactively renamed Emperor of the Byzantine Empire) was never formally created, but instead gradually "spun off" from the leadership position of the original Roman Empire. In 330, Roman Emperor Constantine I moved his capital to Constantinople, the city formerly known as Byzantium, which remained the seat of power of the Eastern Empire after the schism with the Western subdivision. The Byzantine Emperors all claimed rulership of "the Romans" until Constantinople's fall to the Ottoman Empire in 1453 AD. The title of all Byzantine Emperors until the reign (610-641) of Herakleios, was officially "Augustus," although other titles such as Dominus were also used. Their names were preceded …

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JonathanMarkoff JonathanMarkoff 26 March 2018
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Roman Emperor (for my amusement)

The Roman Emperor was the ruler of the Roman Empire during the imperial period (starting in 27 BC). The emperors used a variety of different titles throughout history, usually Augustus or Caesar. Another title often used was imperator, originally a military honorific. Early Emperors also used the title princeps (first citizen). Emperors frequently amassed republican titles, notably Princeps senatus, Consul, and Pontifex Maximus.

The legitimacy of an emperor's rule depended on his control of the army and recognition by the Senate; an emperor would normally be proclaimed by his troops, or invested with imperial titles by the Senate, or both. The first emperors reigned alone; later emperors would sometimes rule with co-Emperors and divide adminis…

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TR TR 11 March 2018
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US Presidential Nominees (because we talked about it once)

This is a list of known presidential nominees in the works of Harry Turtledove.


  • 1 Democratic Party
    • 1.1 Southern Victory
    • 1.2 Other Nominees
  • 2 Republican Party
    • 2.1 Joe Steele
    • 2.2 Southern Victory
    • 2.3 Other Nominees
  • 3 Socialists and Other Third Parties
    • 3.1 Southern Victory
    • 3.2 Other Nominees

Election
Candidate
Won (Y/N?) 1864
Unknown

Y 1868
Y 1872
Y 1876
Samuel J. Tilden

Y 1880
N 1888
(presumed)
Alfred Thayer Mahan

Y 1892
(presumed)
Y 1896
(presumed)
Thomas Reed

Y 1900
(presumed)
Y
Unknown

Y 1908
Y 1912
Theodore Roosevelt

Y 1916
Y 1920
N 1924
Unknown

N 1928
Calvin Coolidge

N 1932
Y 1936
Herbert Hoover

N 1940
Robert Taft

N 1944
Thomas Dewey

Y

In The Guns of the South, Horatio Seymour is the Democratic nominee in 186…






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