Talk:Unnamed Fictional Heads of State and Government

We might want to rename this "unnamed political leaders." It's a bit more succinct, and it would give us wiggle room to include unnamed persons who didn't hold the title of HoS/HoG but were nonetheless very influential and powerful, like the Speaker who assigned Flora to the Transportation Committee.

Also, if we make each line a subsection, we can link to it for purposes of succession boxes. That. . . might be useful. Turtle Fan 01:48, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Donut. Turtle Fan 16:15, June 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can't imagine that there would be much interest in anyone below the HoS or HoG, but that's me. Or put another way: the HoS and HoG we have listed so far gives us insight into how the various worlds work or are different from OTL.  If we start throwing in politicians SoH, the page feels a lot less informative, and more of a general list of things we don't know. That could go on forever with HT's writing choices.


 * Yes, I suppose. "An unnamed Democratic Speaker of the House assigned Flora to the Transportation Committee" doesn't sound very exciting, does it. Neither does "An unnamed senator from Idaho was a dick to Dowling when he appeared before the Committee on the Conduct of the War," "An unnamed Democrat was elected to Flora's once and future seat when the Democrats had a big year in 1932" (right?) and so on.  Actually it would by and large look like a chronicle of people Flora met in her career.


 * I'm trying to think if there's a story where some unnamed viceroy of a colony or majordomo of a palace wields undue influence and this becomes a significant plotpoint--like Duke Raoul in IHP but without the name. That would be a somewhat stronger justification (though even then we might just want to use another article) but nothing's coming to mind. Turtle Fan 17:19, June 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * The succession box idea might be nice. TR 16:46, June 27, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'll try it and see how it looks. Turtle Fan 17:19, June 27, 2011 (UTC)

Pope in the Great War
I've heard that there is a reference or two to the Pope during the Great War. If so, would that be eligible for inclusion here?JonathanMarkoff (talk) 06:15, July 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * That was extrapolation on our part. Pascal Talon was elevated to bishop in the same scene where Galtier learns that the RoQ has declared independence, and it's pretty clear the two are related. Only the Pope can make a bishop, so we assumed the Vatican approved of Quebecois independence. Throw in Irish and Polish independence as well and a pattern emerges: majority Catholic nations winning independence from empires whose rulers had histories of suppressing the Church.


 * Back in the day we figured we were onto something, but as our anti-speculation policy solidified, it had to go. Turtle Fan (talk) 06:31, July 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * The idea that the Pope appointed Talon as Bishop sounds pretty solid, even if the rest is too speculative.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 06:42, July 18, 2016 (UTC)


 * Oh, it's a certainty that he signed off on Talon's elevation. But he wasn't mentioned as having done so. Even if he had been, our write-up would be limited to "There was a Pope" (to which, no shit) and "This Pope elevated bishops, including Pascal Talon." Well of course he elevated bishops, that's part of the job description. And that Talon benefited from this is noted in his own article.


 * By the way, if we follow the above conjecture to indicate the Vatican openly rooting for the Central Powers, that wouldn't be a great fit for their OTL policy of constantly calling for a negotiated peace. So it might be a different Pope from Benedict XV. Even if the Pope is named Benedict XV, it could still be an entirely different person. Or it could be the same person behaving differently under different circumstances. So we can't even say whether he's fictional. (Technically the same is true about Pius XII later in the series, but HT gives us a much clearer picture of author intent through hint-dropping, even though doing so spawned an inconsistency.) Turtle Fan (talk) 10:43, July 18, 2016 (UTC)

Atvar's ship
"It has been proposed that Atvar's bannership the 127th Emperor Hetto is named after this Emperor, but this is purely speculative."

This has been proposed...by whom? And since it's purely speculative, why say anything about it? TR (talk) 22:44, October 23, 2016 (UTC)


 * I've certainly never heard it proposed. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:45, October 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * It seems clear to me that whoever added that entry is proposing it, although who else is also proposing it, not so much. It doesn't seem unreasonable speculation but I doubt there is anything to suggest it in the series. ML4E (talk) 18:36, October 24, 2016 (UTC)


 * The speculation that the banner ship is named for the reigning emperor is intuitively logical, although it lacks textual confirmation.JonathanMarkoff (talk) 09:22, October 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * It's not the type of speculation necessary to make the article coherent. Nor is is per se intuitively logical, since we know nothing of the Race's ship-naming procedure beyond naming ships after emperors.  TR (talk) 14:34, October 25, 2016 (UTC)


 * And even if it were intuitively logical, that's very different from saying it "has been proposed." Turtle Fan (talk) 07:17, October 26, 2016 (UTC)

17th POTUS in 191
This seems like the sort of section we were trying to avoid back in 2011. This page should be focused on people who appear or are at least in office within the four corners of a given story. 17th POTUS isn't such a position. No section of the series takes place during the presidency of the 17th.

If we took this model to it's logical extreme, then we'd also need to have a section dedicated to every president between Lincoln and Blaine, then to everyone between Blaine and T. Roosevelt (with exceptions for Mahan and Reed). And it would apply to other offices, e.g., every POTCS between Davis and Longstreet, and again between Longstreet and Wilson, every PMUK between Palmerston and Churchill, every German Chancellor after Bismarck, etc. And that's just for 191--There are similar gaps in every multi-generational work (WW POTUS-Hull, GAP, Warren, Stassen, GAP, Peterman)

This section isn't necessary. TR (talk) 17:47, March 1, 2017 (UTC)